Showing posts with label monuments. Show all posts
Showing posts with label monuments. Show all posts
Meade takes protest signs down from the Civil War monument at the Wisconsin Capitol.
New Media Meade, the protector of war monuments, takes signs down from the statue of Hans Christian Heg, who died at Chickamauga. Do you think it's cool to have a sign that reads "I fought for the Union/You should too" tied to his foot? We didn't.
Althouse and Meade return to the Veterans Memorial and encounter apologetic protesters, the police, and a rudeness expert.
I took this video yesterday — Saturday, February 26th — at the Wisconsin Capitol building. Meade wanted to go back to see if the protesters had followed through on their promise to remove their things from the Veterans Memorial. The signs that had been taped to the back of the monument were gone, but there was still a lot of junk piled up against it.
The police we encounter didn't want to consult with us on camera, though I do get a clear "no" when I ask if it is against the law to photograph the police. Off camera, they are extremely articulate and professional explaining why the police are allowing the protest and occupation of the Capitol to go on the way it has.
A woman who does not have a Wisconsin accent noses in to tell me I'm "rude" to take pictures.
I say: "Let me ask you a question about 'rudeness.' This is a Veterans Memorial, for people who died in the war. These are all things..."
The rudeness expert interrupts me: "They do things for democracy, which is what we're trying to save right now."
I say: "What would you say to people that are..." And she's turned her back on me and walked away. The rudeness expert.
She had her point and she made it: The memorialized veterans "do things for democracy." That's a poor use of the present tense. They did "things." They died. They fought and they died. But what's important "right now" — according to her — is that the protesters are "trying to save" democracy.
I didn't get to ask follow-up questions, but I think her point was to equate the protesters to the veterans and to make that a justification for piling sleeping bags and all sorts of junk up against the monument. I didn't get to ask how trying to undo the results of the last election is an effort to "save democracy," and, obviously, she wasn't interested in having a conversation with me.
This is what civility looks like...
The police we encounter didn't want to consult with us on camera, though I do get a clear "no" when I ask if it is against the law to photograph the police. Off camera, they are extremely articulate and professional explaining why the police are allowing the protest and occupation of the Capitol to go on the way it has.
A woman who does not have a Wisconsin accent noses in to tell me I'm "rude" to take pictures.
I say: "Let me ask you a question about 'rudeness.' This is a Veterans Memorial, for people who died in the war. These are all things..."
The rudeness expert interrupts me: "They do things for democracy, which is what we're trying to save right now."
I say: "What would you say to people that are..." And she's turned her back on me and walked away. The rudeness expert.
She had her point and she made it: The memorialized veterans "do things for democracy." That's a poor use of the present tense. They did "things." They died. They fought and they died. But what's important "right now" — according to her — is that the protesters are "trying to save" democracy.
I didn't get to ask follow-up questions, but I think her point was to equate the protesters to the veterans and to make that a justification for piling sleeping bags and all sorts of junk up against the monument. I didn't get to ask how trying to undo the results of the last election is an effort to "save democracy," and, obviously, she wasn't interested in having a conversation with me.
This is what civility looks like...
The scene at the Veterans Memorial on Saturday.
Yesterday, Meade and I confronted the protesters who'd taped things to the Veterans Memorial at the Wisconsin Capitol and piled up a lot of stuff around it. They promised us they'd get their things off of the memorial and away from it. We returned today, and here's how it looked (via fisheye lens):
(Enlarge.)
(Enlarge.)
The signs were off the memorial, but, as you can see, the junk was still piled against it, and Meade had a long talk with them — and the Capitol Police — about it. The protesters were very polite and circumspect, even as they fell back on the argument that they thought it was enough to take down the signs — and that they'd thought, yesterday, that it was enough to tape the signs only on the back of the monument. The assertion was made, as it was yesterday, that people can't tell from the back that it's a war monument. Quite aside from the fact that people are free to walk around the monument and see it from all sides, there is a bronze wreath embedded on the back. I asked one woman if she knew the symbolism of a wreath and I think she said she did.
Within a few minutes, the things were moved away from the base of the monument. There were lots of police around (as you can see if you click through to the enlargements), and they were keeping a strong and professional presence and were excellent at talking to us about the problem (though they didn't want to be videotaped speaking).
(Enlarge.)
(Enlarge.)
The signs were off the memorial, but, as you can see, the junk was still piled against it, and Meade had a long talk with them — and the Capitol Police — about it. The protesters were very polite and circumspect, even as they fell back on the argument that they thought it was enough to take down the signs — and that they'd thought, yesterday, that it was enough to tape the signs only on the back of the monument. The assertion was made, as it was yesterday, that people can't tell from the back that it's a war monument. Quite aside from the fact that people are free to walk around the monument and see it from all sides, there is a bronze wreath embedded on the back. I asked one woman if she knew the symbolism of a wreath and I think she said she did.
Within a few minutes, the things were moved away from the base of the monument. There were lots of police around (as you can see if you click through to the enlargements), and they were keeping a strong and professional presence and were excellent at talking to us about the problem (though they didn't want to be videotaped speaking).
Protesters at the Wisconsin Capitol disrespectfully have taped signs on and piled junk against the Veterans Memorial.
Meade and I confront them, and we're told we're the first people who've had a problem with it. I try to explain how that attempted defense of the behavior is only going to make it look worse. It means that of all these crowds of people in the Capitol, no one else has noticed or cared enough to say anything.
AND: Here's a video made by Democracy Now! that features the young woman Meade talks to in the end of our video.
AND: Here's a video made by Democracy Now! that features the young woman Meade talks to in the end of our video.
At the Capitol today... there were signs taped up everywhere..
"Dick move."
Signs and junk...
... and even some people sleeping (at midday)...
Many signs depicted Jesus. Jesus says, "Tax the rich," and Scott Walker ignores our Lord:
The displays at the mezzanine level had become — like all the walls and pillars — places to tape signs. Here's the bust of Robert M. LaFollette:
I don't know if you can see it. Look closely: that is the replica of the Liberty Bell under all those signs:
This is the back of the Veteran's Memorial, with all sorts of notices taped onto it and junk piled up against it.
Meade and I confronted the protesters who maintained what they called their "information station." That's Meade in the baseball cap during the confrontation:
I'll have video of the Veterans Memorial confrontation on YouTube and this blog very soon. The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
ADDED: Here's the post with the video up now.
Signs and junk...
... and even some people sleeping (at midday)...
Many signs depicted Jesus. Jesus says, "Tax the rich," and Scott Walker ignores our Lord:
The displays at the mezzanine level had become — like all the walls and pillars — places to tape signs. Here's the bust of Robert M. LaFollette:
I don't know if you can see it. Look closely: that is the replica of the Liberty Bell under all those signs:
This is the back of the Veteran's Memorial, with all sorts of notices taped onto it and junk piled up against it.
Meade and I confronted the protesters who maintained what they called their "information station." That's Meade in the baseball cap during the confrontation:
I'll have video of the Veterans Memorial confrontation on YouTube and this blog very soon. The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
ADDED: Here's the post with the video up now.
The war monument.
This is the "War" side of the State Soldiers' and Sailors' Monument in Indianapolis. This closeup shows one soldier using a dead soldier to place to perch his gun...
... and pigeons, in turn, using that gun.
"RESURRECTION: NYT runs Obama 'cross' photo..."
Says Drudge, pointing to this "Illustration by Nola Lopez, photograph by Damon Winter." I'm not sure where the photograph ends and the illustration begins, but, either way it's quite a bizarre accompaniment to an article called "As Health Vote Awaits, Future of a Presidency Waits, Too." I don't think there's anything in the article even touching on religion... except to the extent that Obama is some kind of religion.
IN THE COMMENTS: Some of you think that the cross in this context should be understood as representing health care and not Christianity at all. (Sea Urchin said: "Well, it is a square cross, which I associate first with the picture on my first aid kit.") I hope that if you think that, you also agree — and many don't — with what Justice Scalia said at oral argument in Salazar v. Buono, the case about the cross that the Veterans of Foreign Wars built in the Mojave National Preserve, which is supposed to honor the soldiers who died in WWI:
IN THE COMMENTS: Palladian said:
IN THE COMMENTS: Some of you think that the cross in this context should be understood as representing health care and not Christianity at all. (Sea Urchin said: "Well, it is a square cross, which I associate first with the picture on my first aid kit.") I hope that if you think that, you also agree — and many don't — with what Justice Scalia said at oral argument in Salazar v. Buono, the case about the cross that the Veterans of Foreign Wars built in the Mojave National Preserve, which is supposed to honor the soldiers who died in WWI:
"It's erected as a war memorial. I assume it is erected in honor of all of the war dead... What would you have them erect?...Some conglomerate of a cross, a Star of David, and you know, a Muslim half moon and star?"
Peter Eliasberg, the American Civil Liberties Union lawyer arguing the case, explained that the cross is the predominant symbol of Christianity and commonly used at Christian grave sites, not that the devoutly Catholic Scalia needed to be told that.
"I have been in Jewish cemeteries," Eliasberg continued. "There is never a cross on a tombstone of a Jew."
There was mild laughter in the packed courtroom, but not from Scalia.
"I don't think you can leap from that to the conclusion that the only war dead that that cross honors are the Christian war dead. I think that's an outrageous conclusion," Scalia said, clearly irritated by the exchange.
IN THE COMMENTS: Palladian said:
There's a theory that the symbol of the red cross was painted on the baseboards of corridors in the great palaces and castles of England during the middle ages and Renaissance to deter people from urinating in those places, a common problem in those times. It was supposed that a person would not want to micturate upon the symbols of Albion and of his saviour Christ. These effluence-protected spots thereby became associated with cleanness, which led to the later use of the cross to connote sanitation and hygiene. This association eventually led to the use of the red cross as a symbol for medical practitioners, once the connection between hygiene and disease prevention was made, that is.
An inconceivably bad monument.
We are entering Empire State Plaza, that heinous monument to government waste and stupidity:
Just around that corner is the expensive toilet displayed in the previous post. But continue on a few steps, and you will arrive at something beyond comprehension. This is what the state of New York has in its capital as a memorial to the victims of the 9/11 attacks:
I hate to shock you over this, but I must insist that you take a few steps back and gaze with horror at the larger view:
Just around that corner is the expensive toilet displayed in the previous post. But continue on a few steps, and you will arrive at something beyond comprehension. This is what the state of New York has in its capital as a memorial to the victims of the 9/11 attacks:
I hate to shock you over this, but I must insist that you take a few steps back and gaze with horror at the larger view:
Laughable monument.
So you hate Bush and now you've got a really big shoe in your presence. You who find shoes insulting. This is like if one of your leaders came over here and some asshole gave him the finger and to show that we hate your leader, we put up a big hand giving the finger in our town square... or whatever the hell... orphanage. Because if there's one place you want a permanent obscenity, it's in an orphanage. Genius. Perfect genius. Built with orphan-child labor. Perfect.
UPDATE: Shoo.
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